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problem with a mandolin
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Author:  adivondinca [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:21 am ]
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Hello all,


I hope you can help me with a problem.


I own an old mandolin, which has been kept for many ears in humidity with the strings tighten. As a result of that the fingerboard doesn't forms any more  180 degree with the bowl back, but less (170-175), the bowl back is affected, and it is very difficult to play at the mandolin(not to mention the fact that it doesn't play the right notes).


Is there anything that could be done? I was advised by a luthier(the only one I could find in my country, they are very rare) to file the fingerboard.


What do you think?


Many thanks


here is a picture of the mandolin:


http://www.bu-dinca.go.ro/IMGP1226.JPG
Author:  David Collins [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:32 am ]
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Unfortunately there aren't many simple fixes for this style of instrument. A proper neck reset usually requires removal of the top on these mandolins, which is a very big jog. A more common repair is to replace or shim the fingerboard with a wedge to increase the angle - perhaps not the ideal solution for restoration, but most neapolitan mandolins (at least those often found in the U.S.) aren't considered worth the full restoration efforts.

That certainly looks like a nice one, but it's tough to say what it really needs without seeing it up close. Sometimes there is enough fingerboard material to re-level the board, but not typically. It may need the neck angle reset or fingerboard shimmed or replaced to really make it right. Perhaps Colin S will chime in with some suggestions.

It's also important to remember that these instruments were not typically built with the heavy strings used on modern mandolins in mind. If you have it repaired, you should limit strings to a much lighter gauge than used on modern bluegrass mandolins.
Author:  adivondinca [ Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:37 pm ]
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[QUOTE=David Collins]Unfortunately there aren't many simple fixes for this style of instrument. A proper neck reset usually requires removal of the top on these mandolins, which is a very big jog. A more common repair is to replace or shim the fingerboard with a wedge to increase the angle - perhaps not the ideal solution for restoration, but most neapolitan mandolins (at least those often found in the U.S.) aren't considered worth the full restoration efforts.

That certainly looks like a nice one, but it's tough to say what it really needs without seeing it up close. Sometimes there is enough fingerboard material to re-level the board, but not typically. It may need the neck angle reset or fingerboard shimmed or replaced to really make it right. Perhaps Colin S will chime in with some suggestions.

It's also important to remember that these instruments were not typically built with the heavy strings used on modern mandolins in mind. If you have it repaired, you should limit strings to a much lighter gauge than used on modern bluegrass mandolins.[/QUOTE]


thank you for your answer, it seems that it is not as easy as i might have tought. the luthier i know said he can only file the fingerboard untill it will form a 180 degree, but that would mean to cut 3-4 mm of it, at least, i am afraid of that, and it is very costy also. sadly I used some very hard strings also, in the last 3 years, didn't taught it can't handle them. thank you, once again


 
Author:  grumpy [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:44 am ]
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Do you know what the neck joint is? Can you have the mandolin X-ray'd?

I've repaired one of these where the neck had come loose, and the neck joint was a dowel joint. Basically, a rounded M&T. This was a nice one, also, made of BRW and nicely inlaid, so it wasn't a factory cheapie. The neck reset couldn't have been simpler, and nicer, to do.
Author:  TomMorici [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
One thing about not fretting correctly, is the bridge.
It appears to be too low on the body. It should be on the other side of the bend in the top.
Measure from the nut to the 12th fret and double that for the location of the bridge.(plus a bit for compensation)

A picture of the side view, showing the angle of the neck in relation to the top, would assist those that are trying to help you.

Tom
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:48 pm ]
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it might have been moved to get a lower action
Author:  Colin S [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:02 pm ]
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Looks to me that Tom is dead right with his suggestion that the bridge is too far back. Just a rough measure from the picture shows that it should be on the flat top section of the top, which as Tom says will raise the action. These neck joints don't usually move, probably a dowelled butt joint as in a lute (which I have a lot more experience of!), the bowl shape is inherently strong so shouldn't distort, think of an egg, and there is no sign of the fingerboard moving. So, just measure from the nut to the twelth fret and use that measurement to move the bridge forward so that the saddle is that distance from the twelth fret plus say 1mm. If that doesn't work, come back, with a few more pictures and we'll take the next step.

Colin

Colin
Author:  Jody [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
 I am new at this , but there is a possibility the high action is due to the fingerboard "creeping " on the neck , causing a bowed  neck .It may be possible to  remove the fret board and reglue it straight. but it is difficult to tell with the minimum amount of pictures we have to view.... Jody
Author:  grumpy [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:17 am ]
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Y'all are right about the bridge; good catch! But, that will make the action even that much higher....
Author:  David Collins [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:01 am ]
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I guess I'm just used to seeing so many of the Chicago bowl backs, with the occasional Boston or Philadelphia Vega or Weymann style. The Chicago ones do collapse all the time, often leaving no room to lower the bridge and the extension rising up like crazy. They also usually have very unserviceable neck joints, dovetailed under the top or just one piece all the way in to the body. Tater-bugs, inexpensive catalog instruments from the 1890's to the 1920's, pretty much. That's what fills the attics around Michigan.

Hopefully if the neck angle does need to come back it would be the doweled style as mentioned by Mario and Colin. And it's right that bridge looks too far forward, but as Mario said that will bring the action higher as well.
Author:  David Collins [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:02 am ]
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Edit: "bridge looks too far back".....
Author:  adivondinca [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:02 am ]
Post subject: 

 thank you for your answers, it really helped me get a clue. here are some more pictures with it, sorry for the other objects that appear.


the real question is would i be able to repair it myself?  is it so complicated? hope i will get a positive answer :)
Author:  FishtownMike [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:12 am ]
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If you look closely it's top is comming unjoined from the sides or maybe its just missing the purfing i can't really tell from the pic.
Author:  Chuck Hutchison [ Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Top is sinking at the fretboard causing it to bow up on the sides.  Looks like the fretboard is bowing as a result of this also.  I'd say the neck do need reset.
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